Thanks KiwiGal - your comments are very much appreciated.

Sue 

Ok, so I did some 'research' (if by research you mean surf the web- not my idea of research personally, but each to their own).

I didn't have to go far.  The second site I found was so irresponsible I couldn';t beleive what I was reading.  If this sort of nonsense actually convinces anyone, then I guess Dr David G Williams is making a lot of money. 

Its Bobby's Health Shop and there is an endorsement from a random person with the title Dr stuck in front of their name (I also have Dr in front of my name, but I don't expect anyone to think that gives me any authroity whatsoever- it doesn't.  Its ironic how alternative health followers despise GPs so much, yet anyone selling this claptrap sells more if they use the title Doctor.)

http://www.food-grade-hydrogen-peroxide.co.uk/

“Hydrogen peroxide is one of the few simple miracle substances still available to the public. Its safety and multiple uses ranks it right up there with Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO). If you've never used either of these compounds you are overlooking two of the most powerful healing tools ever discovered”. 

[So its a miracle no less.  A miracle.  Well, it must be.  As with all phoney treatments, the list of ailmets it treats is as long as you arm.  Just listen to what this guy claims drinking 'food grade' h202 (bleach) will treat (just £10 per 250 ml btw)- (I haven't listed them all-way too many)]

 Alzheimer's disease, type 2 diabetes, liver cirrhosis, HIV, cardiavascular disease, cancer (unspecificed!)

[I'm not even going to comment on that.   He literally says it is one of the most powerful healing tools ever discovered. I wont even be so bokd as to ask for any evidence for this.  I wouldn't even bother.  I would be acused to being tainted by 'science' and obsessed with 'facts and evidence'.  Far be it from me to suggest its just words put up on a website, for some poor clown to fall for during their rigorous 'research'. ]

[Oh, and guess what- he rolls out that old chestnutt that the pharmacuetical industry don't use it because its not patentable... hmm, ever heard of generic drugs? the pharmaceutical industry make billions from selling non-patenable drugs, so that just yet more bilge.]

later on he say.

later on he say.

later on he say.

later on he say.

Laundry- Add 225ml of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide to your wash in place of bleaches.  

Tile grout cleaning in baths and showers - Spray the tiles with a 3% solution in a spray bottle and allow to soak for 10-15 minutes now scrub with a toothbrush soaked in the solution, mildew and tough stains will disappear rapidly. 

 Weed killer - Used in a stronger solution 10% plus will kill weeds. However this is a stronger solution and will kill other plants, avoid use around food crops.

[Eventually, the lawyers step in and here comes the 'I am not responsible for you drinking bleach you buy from me' part]

"Disclaimer: We are all responsible for our own health, regulating, maintaining and educating ourselves of better and more effective ways of looking after our bodies. The views and suggested uses shown here are not meant to be a substitute for “conventional” medical care. In all circumstances a qualified medical practitioner should be consulted for maximizing benefits. For any of the suggested uses or applications here in this pamphlet additional information may be required to suit all individual circumstances. "

[But hang on- what about Dr David G Williams?  Isn't he a medical practicioner?  How come he thinks its such a good idea to drink bleach but now you're saying I should actually ask my GP first?  I;m confused...]

Just what research did you do to show that drinking h202 was a medicine?  I looked on the US National Librbary of Medicine database (pubmed) to see what the peer review, medical literature had to say.  Nothing whatsoever about it being a medicine.  Zero publications recommending its ingestions.  There's plenty about the dangers of h202 ingestion:

Driessens N, Versteyhe S, Ghaddhab C, Burniat A, De Deken X, Van Sande J,
Dumont JE, Miot F, Corvilain B. Hydrogen peroxide induces DNA single- and
double-strand breaks in thyroid and is therefore a potential mutagen for this
organ. Endocr Relat Cancer. 2009 Jun 9. 

Giberson TP, Kern JD, Pettigrew DW 3rd, Eaves CC Jr, Haynes JF Jr. Near-fatal 
hydrogen peroxide ingestion. Ann Emerg Med. 1989 Jul;18(7):778-9. PubMed PMID:
2735599.

3: Henry MC, Wheeler J, Mofenson HC, Caraccio TR, Marsh M, Comer GM, Singer AJ.
Hydrogen peroxide 3% exposures. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol. 1996;34(3):323-7. 

 So, just how much 'research' did you do?

Just to be clear- I am obviously 'biased'?  GPs are not to be trusted?  Scientists are not to be trusted? But anyone who can create a website, get an ad on ebay, call themselves Dr, and just simple make things up while making a killing selling a cheap industrial chemical as a medicine (!) is trustworthy?  And everyone else is 'closed minded' and following the 'heard'?  Its enough to make one weep.

Update.

I just called Bobby's health shop.  I spoke to a nice lady and told her I had asthma and was interested to learn baout how food grade h202 could help (on their wesbite they sell it as a treatment for asthma)

She said she cannot tell me what to do, but can advise me how other people use it (at least she got that little discliamer slipped in).  She directed me to the section of the website where it advises dosage.  All advice was given as 'some people use it this way' etc.  Apparently, she knows people who 'use it in a nebulizer' and 'haven't suffered', which is reassuring!

I can't think of many things more irresponsbile than advising someone to inhale nebulized bleach, let alone an asthmatic.  Do these people really not care what happens to others?  I feel saddened.

She then told me how hydrogen peroxide is 'just water with extra oxygen' and 'activiates the enzymes and the healer within'- which may all sound like it means something, but t doesn't.  True, hydrogen peroxide has one extra oxyen atom than water.  But it is not water with 'added oxygen'.  Its a completely different chemical with totally different reactivity and properties- toxicity being the most relevant.  Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide???  One is harmeless, we exhale it.  The other one will kill you very quickly indeed.  If anyone doubts the difference one oyxgen can make, try breathing in CO for a while.  Using chemistry to try to sell to the gullable and getting it wrong.   

I imagine what someone must think who calls up and honestly trusts what they are hearing.  They would have got the impression that h202 is a treatment, that it is safe and that its ok to inhale it into their lungs.  She even advised that for medical advice I visit internet forums and learn what other people are using.  Folks, it might all seem harmless to you, but this sort of forum is actually being referred to by dangerous cranks as a source of information.  So all the little stories you give, no matter how crazy, are actually being used by profiteering charlatons who give out dangerous, irresponsible advice to ingest and inhale industrial chemcials.  Please bear this in mind.

Well it wasn't my intention to get a real controversial topic like this going - interesting though it is!

I did a bit of research into H202 a while ago and did find that it had been found that the healing waters at Lourdes contained it and it is thought to be why it is so beneficial to people in poor health. Interestingly high content is also found in colostrum - breast milk for first few days after birth. It is also found naturally in fresh fruit & veg.

http://www.falconblanco.com/health/ozone/hydrogenperoxide.htm

I also have a ships surgeons report from WW1 who said that "The most useful antiseptics were found to be hydrarg. perchlor., iodine, and alcohol, with hydrogen peroxide a most useful cleanser of foul wounds." A little out of date perhaps but very interesting!!!

Just for the record, my father in law died a few weeks ago.

He had COPD for years which was not diagnosed until a few weeks before he died. This had caused ischaemic heart disease and hence very poor circulation to his feet.

The GP and the hospital he was in before he went to London had been very neglectful. 

Adrienne.

Hi AdrienneI am so sorry to hear of your father in law's passing.  It is dreadful to think that he had such a challenging few years when caring treatment would have made this unnecessary.

All the best

Sue 

H202 definitely works very well as a disinfectant (since it is a bleaching agent).  It will certainly sanitize surfaces very well and if used in low concentrations sanitize external cuts and grazes very well too.

That's quite a way off drinking it though.  Or inhaling it.  Which is how its being sold online by health stores.  

Surgeons use betadine (iodine solution) all over the skin to santize the area before the make an incision to keep the area infection free.  They don't recommend drinking betadine though, because that would be downright stupid.  L:et me guess, there is no homepathic approach to santizing an area prior to surgery?

aobbard, my condolences on the demise of your father-in-law.

You have to wonder if he had tried a regimen of H202, both externally and internally, if it would have prolonged his life.

I've just read one post from someone called Dragon promoting the health benefits of intravenous hydrogen peroxide!  Systemic injection of bleach. 

The advice on this website never ceases to amaze me.  First drinking, now injecting bleach.  And all based on not the slightly whiff of evidence other than 'I did my own research'  (i.e. I spent a few hours on google)

It is amazing how people can be so incredibly cynical towards tried and tested therapies, write off the entire medical establishment as corrupt and tainted, condemn the whole of scientific endeavour as pointless and misguided, yet believe anything they read from a website created by random business people clever enough to use words like 'natural' and 'alternative'.

Adrienne, sorry to hear about your father in law's death. I agree that the treatment he received in hospital sounds downright neglectful, and I wish you well with any claims for compensation. 

Harradine, I agree with you on some of the points you make about the miracle cures promoted on the internet, and the unscientific nature of most of the advertising. Having studied nutritional therapy (which you probably think is a load of old bunk) I have seen hundreds of these websites, but hope that over 20 years I have developed a good bullsh*t detector.

Agree that Hydrogen Peroxide is potentially dangerous and should come with a 'Dont try this at home' warning, but I recently lost a friend to cancer and saw first hand how chemotherapy (which you probably consider to be a good thing) can kill. I suspect he might still be alive had he not had such invasive treatment, which caused horrific burns on his arm, 3"x 6" which went down to the tendon, gave him pulmonary embolisms, and destroyed his immune system. This stuff is after all in the same chemical family as mustard gas.

I have no idea whether Hydrogen Peroxide in miniscule concentrations could improve the chances of survival for a cancer patient (as indeed there doesnt seem to be much evidence) but I have no doubt that used as directed it is way way safer than most chemo drugs.

Harradine:

Hey Lewic.  Good to hear from you. 

I don't think any therapy is bunk.  Treatment can come from anywhere, all I ask is that it provides evidence that it works.  That's not such an unreasonable request in my view.  And nor should it be?  And no, I do not consider chemotherapy to be a 'good thing'.  I consider it to be a very bad unfortunate process indeed. 

I guess my question was, does it actually work?  Does drinking, injecting or inhaling h202 actually do any good?  Other than people on websites selling the stuff saying so, I don't see any evidence that it does.  And bear in mind, it is claimed to treat, HIV/AIDS, cancer, Alzheimer's, asthma, and a list of ailments as long as your arm.  Surely, that rings some alarm bells.  Surely your bullshit detector must kick in then?

 H202 may be safer than chemo.  Fair enough, but how do you know?  Is there any evidence or is there just opinion?  Evidence is key.  It makes opinion redundant. I do not rely on opinion. Just evidence.

 h202 is not just in the same class as bleach.  It is bleach.   Hands up who believes in the health benefits of antioxidants?  Well, h202 is the mother of all oxidants.  You will look far and long until you find a more powerful oxidising agent.  Anyone with a O level in chemistry could tell you that.

Peroxide? That's hydrogen with an extra oxygen atom it wants very badly to get rid of.  And it will react with anything it touches.  Any ion.  Any molecule.  A peptide, a nucleotide.  Like your DNA for example.  It will break it to pieces.  Also funny how I can buy h202 for peanuts from a shop as a bleach, but it cost about three time more from an alternative health website. Maybe money is being made at the expense of..

 So much skepticism for all kinds of treatments, and rightly so- but none for inhaling h202.

 I have always criticized and questioned the motives of drug companies.  They are guilty of bad, devious things.  But I have not heard one person on this site admit that maybe, just maybe drinking h202 is a load of old nonsense.  No one seems able to say so.  That says a great deal. 

 I guess I am learning that drug companies should just sell cheap chemicals that do nothing but market them as 'alternative' and promote them on forums like this one.  

 'Use our natural, plant based treatment.  Extracted from a tree or plant root, this remedy had been used for millenia by indigenous tribes as a natural therapy.'  That applies to most pharmaceutical drugs.  It appears that the wording counts a great deal. If people will drink bleach, then they really will take anything.   An immoral, unethical person might take advantage of that. 

 Since people here will drink bleach, it wouldn't be too hard to make them eat their own vomit.  All I would have to do is pretend to be someone who it has helped.  Someone who hates doctors, but is looking for another answer?  And found one.  'Drinking my own urine made my HIV go away'.  'Really, me too!'. I wonder, if I attached a shop to that website and sold trinkets, could I make as money as this one has for Lynne and Brian?

I am converted.  It really is easier and more lucrative to peddle lies than bang on pointlessly about the truth.  Expect to see my new website and forum soon.  My shop will only sell natural, alternative remedies.

harradine

urine therapy is safe and efficacious for a number of maladies.

richard ponsonby:

harradine

urine therapy is safe and efficacious for a number of maladies.

AGGGHHHHH! It's not safe to drink bleach! It's not safe to drink bleach! It's not safe to drink bleach!

I'm sorry, Richard, but you just drove me into the lovingly scientific arms of Harradine. I know, I know, his sarcasm is almost as corrosive as bleach, but the thing about urine is, it leaves the body as waste because the body wants to be rid of it.

We talk again, laura2 (I've just left you on the S.F. site)

(Sigh) And here we go again..... why do you use the word 'drink' when it is just a few drops of FOOD GRADE h.p. in water? Why do you keep saying it's not safe when there are people alive and writing to tell the tale of their restoration to health after using h.p. internally (and that includes my brother). Have you checked out their sites on You Tube?

Have you heard of anybody dying from using h.p.this way? No? Now I'll ask: have you heard of anybody who's died from using prescription drugs? . Don't bother - I'll answer that one HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS - PROBABLY MILLIONS BY NOW!!
You will immediate counter that, I'm sure, by saying that if people use them incorrectly or take too many at once, s---t happens. Well, it's the same with h.p.... In the doses prescribed, it is very safe and very effective. I cannot comment on urine but I know there will be a good and reasonable explanation as to why urine can be effective in certain cases (like lost in the desert). You cannot make a blanket statement as you do, when there are people who have actually used h.p, to refute it; it just makes you look dogmatic and, well, a bit foolish.
We could make a case against fluoride and chlorine, yet we swim in, drink and ingest these deadly chemicals every day. Why aren't you yelling from the rooftops about them... at least h.p. is only used intermittently and for specific purposes.
Do your research; contact these people and then come back and tell us it's not safe. You do NOT want to be thought of in the same vein as Harradine, believe me...!

Ummm...I was actually trying to make a joke. I guess I didn't succeed! The thought of urine therapy gags me, hence my attempt at humour, but I have no opinion about drinking a few drops of food grade hydrogen peroxide in water because I haven't looked into it. However, I expect you would agree that drinking actual bleach, undiluted, is a bad idea!

Harradine doesn't irritate me, because I get where he's coming from and in some instances agree. On the other hand, I believe in the value of foot rubs (though I think he means reflexology) and chiropractic! Chiropractic work has made a huge difference to certain problems I was having when nothing else helped. All that a doctor could suggest was painkillers and surgery, whereas chiropractic helped my neck and my migraines hugely after I was rear-ended in a car accident while looking sideways, preparing to merge into traffic. I had the migraines for years, quite often, until my chiropractor worked on my neck and spine.

I am gradually shifting over to having fewer chemicals in my life, because I think that's a sound general principle. I think some drugs are worth taking in some circumstances, but to me they are more of a last resort than a first resort. I wish doctors felt the same.

Wouldn't you call hydrogen peroxide a chemical, though?