KiwiGal. If we  look at people who have far, far less opportunity- would they turn their nose up so sneeringly at a Cambridge education?  No.  Many kids there would absolutely love to learn and go to school, would love their schools to be better equipped, have better facilities. They would embrace genuine learning and work damn hard to achieve it (and, most of all enjoy it, while learning how to deconstruct evidence and thereby learn never to have to take any opinion on trust or faith ever again). If only they could.. If only everyone could. That is my Golden Cow. 

But you reject such an education in principle.  That seems inconsiderate of people all over the world who desperately crave, but can only dream of, a good education- which was certainly something very rare where I came from, but I managed it through sheer passion for the subject I chose and unapologetic hard work. ( I lived in a caravan estate until I was twelve and now I am a neuroscientist, don't swallow any nonsense and feel a duty to defend the principles of the enlightenment). And that was through years of sheer hard work.

But had I listened to your advice when I was twelve, I would have probably have been a naturopath or learned to rub feet. That would have been no worse than the advice I actually did have then from my parents.  Luckily, I didn't listen to anyone's' advice. The universe, nature and all her impossible questions and hard fought gifts had already taken me. And that lust will never fade...

I can't speak for all scientists, but only the people I know.  Not one of us are in it for the money (we are low paid, public sector workers).  We would be payed more if we did other things. 

 Its all about hunger and passion from an early age.  I guess that is not something anyone here will understand, which saddens me a lot. If only you could get it and see the creativity that only comes after years of studying the human brain (in my case).  Nature does not give up her secrets easily, and so we have to think hard at ways to do it.  And when she does.. when she does (which is rare).  Its a feeling one cannot describe- like you are the first person there.  That's all any scientist wants- for nature to offer you one of her gorgeous secrets.  And then we are very happy and want to tell everyone.

Alternatively we have foot rubbing and bleach drinking.  Nasty websites selling nonsense using the language we invented.  Its enough to make one weep. How will you find anything out that way, other than agree with a system invented by a salesman? 

In some respects I agree that one should shun all sources of media.   One cannot be trained to know nonsense from sense.  That takes education.  In my ideal world, my Golden Cow, we would all have PhDs and never have to trust any source of information ever again (its part of the training never to do so).  That would be a world where 'how do you know that..? would be like saying 'hello'.   

'How do you know that?'  All I have ever asked here.  Perhaps now some understand why. 

Hi Kiwigal - after reading this further vitriol addressed to yourself and to someone on another post, I very much fear you are quite right.  Maybe the purpose is to shut down the WDDTY website singlehanded.

Harradine - I am all for education and finding out the truth, but I was taught manners and your lack of them allied to your nasty and vicious attacks on members of this site I find deplorable.  If I was told that you were an employee of a pharmaceutical company trying to destroy all opposition I honestly wouldn't be surprised.  I am very disappointed as, as a scientist, you could have contributed a lot to this site, but you have chosen a different route.  I wish you well and hope that you find much happiness in your lab with not a trace of bleach or foot rubbing to  disturb your dreams.

Sue 

Harradine,

Caravan site?...Luxury!!...I used to live in a shoe box in the middle of the road!!

You are clearly a "poor boy done good",and credit to you...you have clearly followed your dream,and few of us can claim that,but it seems,since your ascension to the rarified air of PhD,you deem anything less as totally unworthy and look down on others with contempt.

Schools and Universities are designed to produce "repeaters" and not "free thinkers"...the curriculum is controlled by those for whom a healthy free thinking student is their worst nightmare.

How did you get your PhD?...you spent about 5 yrs gaining knowledge from attending lectures given by PhD's,doing experiments and reading books written by PhD's...how do you know any what you were taught was actually true?...you don't,you have to trust that it is.

I have studied for the last 9 yrs attending lectures,workshops and classes,some by PhD's,and reading dozens of books,many by PhD's...I don't know if any of it is true,I trust that it is...with that in mind,how do you know that your education is any better or truer than mine?

Seems to me you dragged yourself out of humble beginnings and worked hard to attain your goal of a PhD,and believe everything you were taught,but look down upon those of us who have chosen a different source of education,which is just as valid as yours.

You hate this website because people who have no PhD,MSc,BSc are "allowed" (god forbid) to post their opinions on it and dare to use the kind of language and words that people like you "invented" and in your mind that cheapens your whole education.

Their are more PhD's and specialists than ever...which means more university educated people than ever than in history and yet the health of the planet and it's inhabitants is worse than ever...I don't think more university educated PhD's is the answer.

Don't forget...many people are "forced" to search this website for answers to their chronic health problems because many of the university educated PhD's in the medical field have either failed to help,or have actually made people,worse...I am sure your arrogant,sneering posts remind readers of those very Dr's.

Robin

 

 

 

 

---

Robin Allan
Chek Practitioner
Natural Health Coach

http://www.robinallan.com


robin_allan@hotmail.com

07967-366470

Robin - something is puzzling me and I'd appreciate it if you could clarify it for me.  I want to know why some subjects are considered science and some aren't.  I looked up the definition of science - I have attached some but not all of the explanation.  

 

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning"knowledge") refers to any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice thatis capable of resulting in a prediction or predictable type of outcome. In thissense,science may refer toa highly skilled technique or practice.^[1]

Inits more restricted contemporary sense, science refers to a system of acquiringknowledge based on scientific method, and to the organized bodyof knowledge gained through such research.

 We have domestic science for example - so why doesn't homeopathy come under the heading of science too.  I mean, it's only another form of cooking isn't it?  I am a graphologist - which is the science of handwriting - though I'm sure there are those that would disagree.  It did entail 3 years of study though.

Who decides what is science and what isn't?  It's very hazy - feels a bit like a lottery.  Surely anything that proves to help the human race, and continues to do so, with knowledge that can be handed down through the generations, should be deemed a science?

Thanks

Sue 

Hi Sue,

I think the term "science" has been hijacked by certain organisations and its meaning has been restricted to government controlled/sanctioned subjects such as medicine.

I would say that science by the definition you have given,can be applied to just about anything...even,god forbid,Graphology and Homeopathy!!!

I am sure the good Dr.H will enlighten us in due course.

Robin

p.s.click inbox at top right of your page.

---

Robin Allan
Chek Practitioner
Natural Health Coach

http://www.robinallan.com


robin_allan@hotmail.com

07967-366470

Thanks Robin - I thought that might have been the case.  The rest of the excerpt I found about science goes as follows:

 

Inits more restricted contemporary sense, science refers to a system of acquiringknowledge based on scientificmethod, and to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.^[2][3] This article focuses on the more restricteduse of the word. Science as discussed in this article is sometimes called experimental science to differentiate it from appliedscience—the application of scientific research to specific humanneeds—although the two are often interconnected.

Scienceis a continuing effort to discover and increase human knowledge andunderstanding through disciplined research. Using controlled methods,scientists collect observable evidence of natural or social phenomena, recordmeasurable data relating to the observations, and analyzethis information to construct theoretical explanationsof how things work. The methods of scientific research include the generationof hypotheses about how phenomena work, and experimentation that tests these hypotheses under controlledconditions. Scientists are also expected to publish their information so otherscientists can do similar experiments to double-check their conclusions. Theresults of this process enable better understanding of past events, and betterability to predict future events of the same kind as those that have beentested.

 

By this I assume that the more restricted science is what is generally taught and accepted.  Though "restricted" and "science" in my mind shouldn't be in the same sentence.  It should be all about pushing boundaries, in whatever subject it happens to be.

 

Sue 

 

Robin, I am not joking- we lived in a caravan until I was three and lived without hot running water or inside toilet until I was twelve.  You might think I am joking but that's true.  If anyone I know reads this they'll know who I am now ;)

 I apologise if I have created an impression that I think other opinions are lesser.That's possible true and I guess a failing.  Fair enough.

 But a few things- a PhD involves no taught classes. BSc is all about teaching kids nice little stories.  A lot of history and method- interesting stuff.  But there is no taught class in a PhD- its pure research.  You are picked because of your passion for the subject and love for a specific topic.  And research you do.  No text books. Its all about you doing your own experiments, for way, way below minimum wage working long into the night and definitely no weekends off.  Let me tell you its pretty tough. And the criteria for passing?  Have you contributed something to human knowledge?  Have you told us something we did not know before? If yes, you pass.  If no..  Then you aren't good enough to call yourself doctor.  And that's it. You can go to the British Library and read my (or any) PhD thesis.  They're all there, for everyone.  That's why it makes me laugh that you think scientists are evil.  We put books in the British Library and work for less than a teachers salary.

 My only gripe about this website is that it actually makes money and sells things that claim to do things they don't.  I would not have a problem if it said 'we have no idea if this works or not, but people love it and use it'. That wouldn't come on my radar.  But to say ' this has a basis, this works due to this scientific principle' is when I get involved.  A PhD teaches you just how hard it is to know a thing, anything.  Its bloody hard.  Every fact is fought over and taken to pieces again and again, nothing taken on faith and suspicion over everyone else's work and methods.  Nature keeps her secrets closely guarded.  Scientists are a questioning, untrusting lot.  But I don't see that happening here.  I see people swallow ideas whole as long as they are wrapped up with the right language.

Science will never, ever answer everything- it can't and if you hear anyone claim it can- be very suspicion.  But there are many things it can answer- and has.  I see many of those things not only not known about here, but actively rejected.  That is anti-knowledge. That is refusal to know.

Just to be strait btw- pharmaceutical companies are devious and yes, they do nasty horrible things.  I would be an idiot if I denied that and never have.  But I am just as angry with them as I am with someone who says that wearing a magic amulet will cure your cancer.  Both are equally anti-science, both take us backwards.  And its that backward step that makes me shudder.

 I realise I have definitely pushed the boundaries of what is acceptable on this website.  Honestly my intention was to prevent uninformed causal web surfers from using Google as a source of health advice and reading - 'yeah, drink XYZ'.'  If that's what they decide to do then fine.  But I wanted to be the voice that said, 'hang on not everyone thinks that such a good idea, have you asked for evidence?' Surely that is not scary, but fair enough?

I will never change the minds of people who post here.  They are entrenched and I am not trying to.  But surely it cannot be wrong for people dipping in and out of this website to know that there are many points of view.  And mine is one of them.

I agree Stevebut the sad / worrying thing is that the NHS sometimes wholeheartedly believesin what they say or have to do things because is politically correct!

Some of it comes from the falseand ingrained belief that Randomised Controlled Trials (RCT) is the only way togather evidence of effectiveness and determine degrees of possible harm.  

Hi Sue

Thanks for your support, and just to reiterate - I don't read anything Harradine writes to me, so I'm not complexed. However his last two paragraphs were in my line of sight when I read the last input from 'pquadros'.

He says his intention was to: prevent uninformed "causal"(!) web surfers....etc. What he still doesn't get is that these people have already done the deed and survived, healed and are reporting their improved health. In other words, he's trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. What's the point - except to destructively fight with all his being to stamp out something he always thought impossible and can't face the facts. He's just like those 'scientists' who insisted the world was flat.........

He says the people who post here are "entrenched" ... hullo!? Recognise yourself in there Harradine???  He still doesn't get what a 'point of view' is, as opposed to shooting down someone's beliefs without coming up with another remedy (apart from pharmaceuticals because that's why this Forum exists).   

Science certainly has been hijacked by the pharmaceutical fraternity - a bit like the word 'massage' has been (in law!) taken over by kinetherapeuts here in France.

I notice pquadros said 'Steve', and I can't find a Steve in the other members .. could it be that Harradine has a first name like the rest of us mortals....? Maybe he's a friend of H's. 

Anyway, the only way to deal with this ongoing and unresolvable debate is to simply ignore him. Our reactions/comments are fodder to a chained beast, who lives to slobber another day. Harsh..? Hurtful?... I suggest H re-reads what he wrote about others before he takes that line. Somewhere in all that negativity is a hurt little boy who felt himself disadvantaged and had to work even harder because of it, and now all that he believes is being blown out of the water by reading this Forum. If you ask me, he is full of parasites in the gallbladder; this could account for all that anger and angst. It would do him a world of good to go away and detox .. please...

Heidi 

... and just to show you that this leopard will never change his spots despite placating words: I've just re-visited the Breast Implant topic and lovely Sue has written an antidote to my rather critical reply to this woman who is looking for a healthy way to keep doing invasive medical procedures in the name of 'beauty' (thank you, Sue, I should be more understanding, perhaps), but - lo and behold - who do I find but Friend Harradine (I'm sure his interest was purely scientific!) who just couldn't help himself.

In amongst calling this unsighted woman lovely and 'a stunner', he wrote (and I've corrected his usual grammatical mistakes) "My impression of this forum is that 99% of people who actually post here regularly wouldn't have the first clue about that problem." (He's actually right for once). But - "It's really not the place to ask for good advice about genuine concerns.  The advice will always be along the lines of 'eat organic food, see a homeopath or sort out your chi'.  So its unlikely that you'll find too many girls who've had implants (let alone shaved their armpits for a while!).
....But really, only a tiny number of people post here and none of them would have a clue about such things (they're mostly a bit too 'woo'..).  You need actual advice.I hope you find some good advice that's really useful, and best of luck.   Take care of yourself. "

Somebody give me a hypodermic needle.................!!!!  

Swine Flu Update

I called the Swine Flu hotline . all I got was crackling

I heard that the first symptom is that you come out in rashers.

Another is that you get the trotts.

But, I woke up with pig tails this morning ... Should I be worried?

The doctor asked me how long I'd had the symptoms of Swine Flu. I said it
must have been about a Weeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

Apparently my mate's got Swine Flu, I think he's just telling porkies, though.

The only known cure for Swine Flu in humans has been found to be the
liberal application of oinkment.

I hear there's now a sine flu as well. Someone on the news was going off on
a tangent about it.

This little piggy went to market,
This little piggy stayed at home,
This little piggy had roast beef,
This little piggy had none.
And this little piggy had influenza A virus subtype hemagglutinin protein 1
neuraminidase protein 1

Swine flu, however, is not a problem for the pigs because they're all going
to be cured anyway.

News Flash .... this just in. The world's religious leaders have issued a joint
declaration that the Swine Flu pandemic is the start of the aporkalypse.

Swine flu has now mixed with bird flu.  Scientists say they will find a
cure when pigs fly.

I just heard on the news that, "Swine Flu could potentially be a threat to
every single person in the world". Well it's a good thing I'm married then, isn't it?

This is not a time for panic. It is no pig deal. It is a mild hamademic,
don't believe the spam you're getting..... just a bunch of ham operators....

Kiwigal,

Nice one...but you do realise the good Dr.H will probably want references to scientific research for all your claims?!!!

Cough,Sneeze,Oink...

Robin

---

Robin Allan
Chek Practitioner
Natural Health Coach

http://www.robinallan.com


robin_allan@hotmail.com

07967-366470

He he Kiwigal - now I know for definite that you're crazy!!  Good to have a little light relief on this subject and thanks for the nice comments.

Sue 

Now, now, Sue - less of the 'crazy' or Harradine might think he's got an ally! It's just my Kiwi upbringing - not as harsh or abrasive as the Aussies, but neither do we have much of the stiff upper lip attitude of you Brits left. I used to argue with the teachers on behalf of my gentler classmates, too.
I have realised, though, that in relaying to H. my extreme displeasure at his unfounded, sneering attempt to appear superior, I'm being just as argumentative as he and have settled into a pattern of trying to be as right as he (thinks he) is!
So I think I've established pretty succinctly how I feel about his attitude and there's nothing more to be said. I shall henceforth sit on my hands if I see anything more from him in this Forum. I think the worst possible thing that could happen to his ego is if we all just pretend he didn't exist.

Robin - where do you find such amazing websites with so much info on the dangers of vaccination! And since they exist, why are all the governments of the world like ostriches?
And why aren't the Green Parties of the world out in the streets with big whiteboards full of these statistics? I think this is worse than even the nuclear threat, or Al Quaeda (did I spell that right?). I have sent these sites to my NZ Dept of Health with the warning that if things go bad I will be telling the country that they had this info and didn't act on it.

I feel so sorry for the youth of today; if they don't get brain tumours or leukaemia from their cell phones, they will be neurologically challenged and very unhappy adults. They will die younger and breed weaker children. Hmm maybe that's where they'll start to mutate into some of the up-to-now figurative Other World creatures on our plasma screens.....  with the help of H-H-H- scientists....

There is no point us arguing the merits of science any longer  You find your inspiration elsewhere.  But let me tell you, if you think science is about drug companies, then they have won and that is so very sad. 

 To me it is about the cell, DNA, life, what lies beyond our galaxy, etc, etc.  Inspirational. Look here.  If this does not inspire you, then you are dead inside.  And this ALL comes from science. Look.  Inspirational.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q55z6EsL8M

Are Galileo, Newton, Darwin, Feynman and Einstein really looked upon so badly here?  After a careful consideration of their work and contribution, are they really thought of as nothing more than a laughable aside?  I am genuinely interested to know.