The NHS today announced plans to vaccinate most of the population against swine flu...isn't that thoughtful of them!!

But before any of you rush out to get your vaccine just stop and read this:

http://www.globalhealthfreedom.org/?p=3081

Robin

 

 

 

 

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Robin Allan
Chek Practitioner
Natural Health Coach

http://www.robinallan.com


robin_allan@hotmail.com

07967-366470

That article in the link you provide misses out an absolutely vital detail from the data is relies on....

"In a press release dated October 9, 2006, “Guillain-Barre Syndrome After Vaccination in United States” a study using the US Government’s own Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System Data (VAERS) showed that Gullian-Barre Syndrome (aka Polio) is alive and well in the vaccinated population:"

However, if anyone actually reads the whole abstract, to be found here http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/524115/ , and not just a small section of it quoted in your link, you will see that it reads..

"There were 54 cases of GBS reported after vaccination in the United States in 2004. The number of vaccine related cases constituted 0.1% of the total admissions for GBS in the United States."

So in the whole of the US vaccinated population for an entire year, only 54 cases of GBS were seen.  And 99.9% of GBS cases were not vaccine related!!!

The author of the article you link to has either not read their own source data, read it and completely misunderstood it, or understood it and decided to get it totally wrong... 

Harradine,

I guess that means you will be first in line for your shots then?

Robin

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Robin Allan
Chek Practitioner
Natural Health Coach

http://www.robinallan.com


robin_allan@hotmail.com

07967-366470

blobby:

Harradine,

I guess that means you will be first in line for your shots then?

Robin

I'm not sure what you mean.  You guess what means I will be 'first in line' for a jab?  The fact that the article you linked to didn't show evidence for vaccine related harm?  It wouldn't really affect my decision.  I've been vaccinated against polio, measles, TB, tetanus and diptheria (and maybe one or two others!) just like the vast majority in this country, and I'm pretty glad I didn't contract any of those illnesses!!  It really is an amazing conincidence that those diseases dissapear when sufficient vaccination occurs, and reappear when it doesn't. 

There may be arguments for and against H1N1 vaccination.  I'm not sure right now population level vaccination is the best route to take, at the moment at least.  Has it become such a threat yet?  I'm not sure it has.  Perhaps there is a good case for vaccinating people who might die if they get ill.  What do you think?  Whatever you're view, nothing in that article you linked to is informative or relevant (since it got the evidence wrong) and therefore couldn't help anyone form a view.  Have you based your views on articles like that one? 

Getting the evidence wrong and distributing a lousy intepretation of data does the opposite of inform people- by getting the evidence so clearly wrong, it misinforms and disempowering peoples' choices.  Anyone can be guilty of this, drug company, government, journalist, anyone.  That's why some really pedantic people get so protective of interpreting data correctly...(they see themselves a little bit like guardians of standards...)

 

 

Most diseases against which people think vaccination has been a panacea have disappeared where there is clean drinking water and a certain level of hygiene.  That is why so many illness that we shake off easily cause multiple deaths in developing countries where the population has no access to such things.  Any vaccination depresses the immune system and any needle jabbed into the body is likely to block a meridian line, leading to problems many years later when no connection is made between the two.

My masseuse recently mentioned that her parents had decided a few years ago to be vaccinated against flu.  Not only were they extremely ill afterwards but they have had flu every year since.  Of course, vaccines inject doses of the ailment into bodies tha tmay not be healthy in the first place, leading to obvious consequences.

Eat a healthy, preferably organic, diet, stay positive and active and you will do far more good to your body than absorbing chemicals.

Jili Hamilton
www.jilihamilton.com

 

 

Hi Robin

Some of us have 'met' Harradine on another subject. We have absolutely no idea why he/she persists in logging on - it is clear that our idea of how to stay healthy is very upsetting to .. I'll use the masculine to keep it simple... him. In fact, now I know how many vaccinations he's had I'm not surprised at the toxicity of his remarks! At first his aggressiveness upset me a bit, but now I feel sorry for him as his system must be short-circuiting. These natural forms of healing must be very threatening to him for him to do his best to try to make us wrong/stupid/deluded in using them.

That he still hasn't come to terms with the fact that, not only are many scientists paid by interested parties to come to certain conclusions but many have admitted to leaving out pertinent data or even lying in order to 'prove' successful experiments, and that the FDA is open to the highest bidder, and that governments are either hoodwinked or 'guided' into medical decisions, can only mean he is linked in some way to the medical/scientific fraternity. Every communication in this Forum is constructive and helpful - or personally endorsed: Harradine's is the only jarring voice. I found that by simply not responding dried up the unhelpful exchange, which is why I'm writing to you and not him. I am all for constructive debate but Harradine comes across as so disagreeable and, quite frankly, so unknowledgeable that it's a waste of time trying to discuss anything. Just go to the conversation about food-grade hydrogen peroxide if you want to know more!

Cheers, Heidi 

There are several points about vaccination that anyone faced with this proposed 'mass' vaccination, and all other vaccinations, needs to consider.

First, there is a move to make certain vaccinations compulsory - MMR is one, this one for Swine Flu might be another. My position on this is simple. If anyone believes that the vaccinations offered by the NHS, and the conventional medical establishment generally, are either effective and safe, they should be offered them. I don't believe they are effective, and I am absolutely sure they are unsafe. Therefore, I don't want them, and will refuse them. My first point, then, is that any vaccination should be offered, and each individual should decide whether they accept it, or not. Personal choice should be sacrosanct.

Second, the NHS should give us honest information about each vaccination so that we are all able to make our personal choice on an informed basis. The NHS have never done so, and still don't do this. As far as they are concerned, all vaccinations are entirely safe. This is not just dishonest, as so many features in WDDTY have informed us, it has reached the point of an information black out. You don't believe this? Try, then, to get any criticism of the MMR vaccination published in the national media. It is virtually impossible.

Third, what evidence is there that the Swine Flu vaccine is effective? What tests have been undertaken on the new vaccine? Is the NHS entirely sure that the new vaccine is going to be safe? If so, on what basis. I have heard today, for instance, that the vaccine is going to contain aluminium in order to attenuate it. Is this safe? I do not believe so.

Fourth, for anyone who is anxious about Swine Flu, look to homeopathy. Homeopathy was much more successful in treating Spanish Flu at the end of the 1st world war - and the remedies that homeopaths are using to treat Swine Flu seem to be the same ones as in 1919. They are known to be safe. And they are known to be effective.

Why look any further?

Steve Scrutton

 

KiwiGal:

Just go to the conversation about food-grade hydrogen peroxide if you want to know more!

Cheers, Heidi 

Yes, please do!  I'm happy with the points I made there, having taken the time to find out a bit about directly from the sellers of h2o2 (and was even more shocked by what they told me than what I had read here).  No wonder people can't tell sense from nonsense if you have people giving out such dangerous advice to people of good faith.

Its ok Heidi, I've been posting on these forums for a while now and had exchanged with Robin in the past.    Regarding vaccination for H1N1, like I say I am not entirely convinced that population-wide vaccination is approariate right now. 

Heidi, have a look at the links posted below and decide if you think that a link between GBS and vaccination is supported by the actual study cited.  You don't have to reply to me, that's not the point.  Have a read of the links and see if you think what was said in A) http://www.globalhealthfreedom.org/?p=3081

 i.e. "a study using the US Government’s own Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System Data (VAERS) showed that Gullian-Barre Syndrome (aka Polio) is alive and well in the vaccinated population"

 is a true reflection of what was said in B).http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/524115/

 "There were 54 cases of GBS reported after vaccination in the United States in 2004. The number of vaccine related cases constituted 0.1% of the total admissions for GBS in the United States"

(to be fair this second link was provided in first article.)

Make your own mind up.  That was my only point of posting.  I spotted an obvious error of accuracy.one that completely changed the overal message of the article it cited- it might have been an honest mistake or it might not.  At the risk of being a jarring voice, when I spot those, especially when others don't or don't even recognise how to spot them, I point them out.  Its a health advice website after all, so surely that can only do good and not harm?  I'm not sure why fact and accuracy of information raises suspicion on a site claiming to give health advice.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it should be remembered that this site is a major proponent of the natural health movement. However, it is good that there is a voice of dissent on such a site (in this case Harradine's). We must keep a level of perspective here. If not, what will happen is exactly the same as what happens if we believe everything we hear from the mainstream medical profession. There is so much misinformation around on both sides of the issue. People will read reports and articles that bolster their own beliefs. So, it is not surprising that bits are left out, or emphasis placed on certain parts. I have been guilty of that, too. It is hard to convince someone to change their long held beliefs. To do that, only the truth will do. What is truth? Truth is based on empirical evidence. It is without prejudice. I must point out that it is becoming harder to discern what is propaganda and what is real science. A typical example is the global warming debate, but I digress. Unless you have the time to really examine the evidence, you are limited to being controlled by whatever you choose to hear. So, don't worry. If you find a disagreeable voice now and again, you can just switch off. On the other hand, it may be a voice of rationality begging to be heard and, perhaps, bring with it the voice of reason. Your beliefs are yours to keep whatever you decide.

Very well written. 

This whole alert business has gotten into a real uproar which is what the medical profession wants.  "Forcing" anyone to get a shot is totally wrong.  Should be ones own decision. 

I dont understand why everyone is so afraid of the flu.  It has been around since the beginning of time and will be here until the end of time.  Keeping your immune system in top shape and eating whole foods will do wonders to help you from getting ill.  Should you get ill will be miner compared to someone who is not in top shape.   

 

With the WHO raisng the alert to Level 6, their highest level I am extremely concerned.  We should realize that many Governments (USA + others) have passed laws that allow them to mandate vaccinations for National Security when a Level 6 Alert is issued.  There is no choice and those who resist face imprisonment.

Here is a link to information from one of the most visited doctor sites in the USA with the announcement of the vaccine for Swine Flu:  http://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2009/06/16/warning-swine-flu-vaccine-coming-soon.aspx.  I thought it took 12 to 18 months after a strain was discovered to have a vaccine.  Maybe we should look to history for an answer.  Here is information on the 1970's outbreak of the Swine Flu:  http://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2009/07/01/a-warning-about-swine-flu-vaccine--from-1979.aspx.

As for me I do not see the benefit of flu shots, even though I blindly took them for years because of doctor recommendation.  I can self quarantine, but Government mandated vaccinations allows them to force it upon me.

Fight for the right to choose for yourself and be aware that the Big Brother Government could soon be intruding with a needle and a vaccine for you.

I am sure that if enough people stand up against the government's wish to inject us all with chemicals whether we wish to be injected or not, they will back down.  After all, they are meant to be the elected representatives of the people and can be voted out.  If enough people are passionate about the cause then changes get made - no politician wishes to lose his or her job.  It does take massive resistance to get heard though.

I like forums like this as they get me thinking and checking out information.  There are varying viewpoints which can make it confusing for the uninitiated, but only for a while.  Eventually the truth will out.  I deeply regret hearing about any deaths, but I am amazed at the mass hysteria when so few of the world's population have actually died of swine flu, that haven't had underlying health problems.  Call me cynical, but when the authorities are trying to whip me up into a frenzy of fear and anxiety, I automatically wonder what they don't want me to see - what are they trying to hide?

It is no secret that the British Government have lost a lot of support recently - how are they going to be able to enforce vaccinations on the whole of the UK when there is such a question mark over whether they care about us, the general public, at all?  They aren't exactly in a strong position with the current lack of trust.

What I'd like to know is, if I am one of the unlucky people that the vaccination doesn't agree with, and I end up with health problems because of it - who is going to come and look after me and ensure my quality of life?  Or would there be armies of people trying to prove that I wasn't well in the first place?  I say this because I know of a healthy toddler who had the MMR vaccination and is now autistic.  His family has little support and are coping with an increasingly aggressive teenager.

I know that vaccinations don't have obviously negative repercussions on everyone, but if I am going to take that chance, it should be my choice and not some faceless bureaucrat's.  After all, it's my body and I have to live in it for the rest of my life - no one cares more about my health than I do, so why should I mindlessly hand over my future to someone who doesn't even know me - to whom I'm just a name or a number.  I am not irresponsible, and if this was a form of plague where people were dropping like flies I would happily do what was necessary, after determining what that was.

I am an adult who is quite capable of making up her own mind - I don't like to be bullied into submission.  All I ask is that I am given the facts or the knowledge of where to find them and I'll decide for myself what I wish to do.  Aren't we meant to be a free society?  Or is that just me being naive again? 

Would you like to post a homeopathic protocol for Swine Flu, Steve?  I wd be interested in knowing what rems to take should they be needed, if only to bat off any harrassment from my GP regarding the dire necessity for vaccines. If this becomes mandatory (and the WHO is currently agitating for global vaccination), I need to change my religion to one that allows me to plead for exemption!

There are some articles of interest on Mike Adams' website for those who may not know it:  

http://www.naturalnews.com/026613_swine_flu_vaccines_pandemic.html

Thanks to everyone for informative and articulate posts...

Moyra

maryanjo:

It is hard to convince someone to change their long held beliefs. To do that, only the truth will do. What is truth? Truth is based on empirical evidence. It is without prejudice.

I couldn't agree more.  Very well put.  Everyone has their innate biases and beliefs.  That's why, when accuracy really matters (as in the case of giving health advice on which life literally may depend) empirical, objective evidence is the only source that matters.  Personal world views, strongly held beliefs and isolated experiences are insufficient in this regard.  That's why its so important to support claims with objective evidence.  Otherwise they could be subject bias and ultimatetely mislead, no matter how well intended. 

More relevant info on this topic:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/16/Major-Expose-on-Swine-Flu-by-60-Minutes.aspx

Robin

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Robin Allan
Chek Practitioner
Natural Health Coach

http://www.robinallan.com


robin_allan@hotmail.com

07967-366470