Can anyone tell me what happens if a toe infected with gangrene in a 90 year old is left for over a month before it is removed?

This has happened to my father in law who is now in a London hospital having a third toe removed because it has spread.

In my nursing days an amputation would have been done well above the infected area and very quickly.

The toe was also seeping nasty fluid and left undressed on a surgical ward for 3 weeks. The whole ward smelt.

To be fair the blood supply to the leg was restricted due to a blocked artery in the groin which has now partly been dealt with. I am assuming that the reason for delay was because a wound would not have healed.

What I do not understand is why they have only removed the infected parts and why it was allowed to be left exposed? He was walking around the ward and it was oozing on to the floor!!

The staff were also uncaring and quite rude to visitors. He was also left for long periods with no pain relief. (he has 2 crumbling vertebrae)

I feel that Florence Nightingale would have turned in her grave!!! 

Adrienne.

Hi Adrienne,

This toe should have been operated on immediately. You should sue. I cannot understand that there would be any reason for not amputing with gangrene. What sort of hospital is this? This is the sort of situation that a whistle blower exposes to the BBC and then gets fired for doing so!! As that nurse did when she exposed the horrendous treatment of elderly people on her ward.

The only explanation is neglect.

Adelaide

Thanks.

This is what I feel.

The hospital has already been in the national news for poor control of infection.

I can't understand it. Did wonder if I should speak to infection control to ask some questions.

Standards have certainly gone very downhill since my nursing days.

I'd be glad to know what others think?

Adrienne.

Hi Adrienne,

I would ask for your father in law's records under the Data Protection Act 1998. The hospital  are obligated to provide them within 40 days and you can only be charged £10 for getting them.

I would then go to reputable medical negligence lawyer with a copy of these records. I feel that you have grounds for compensation.

However after you get the records I would also demand a meeting with the executors of the 'NHS Trust. As this should never have happened and at the very least a full apology is in order. 

It is really awful that people in 2009 receive worse treatment for gangrene  than the soldiers in the Crimean War who were tended by our Florence!!

Take care,

Adelaide

Thanks Adelaide,

Actually the GP was just as neglectful. His breathing has been terrible for past year or so and I felt he needed oxygen a long time ago. Unfortunately F in law is very stubborn and would not ask for help.

They have been living in a semi with upstairs bedrooms/bathroom and things have steadily got more of a struggle.

My m in law (frail 88) had to go into hopsital for a bowel prolapse repair about 2 months ago. Despite family being very good (he refused respite as I suggested)  he deteriorated while she was in and this was when he developed the "toe" problem. He fell shortly after she came home an she couldnt get him up and called an ambulance. The paramedics  were apalled at the state of his breathing and he has been in hospital ever since. If the GP had done job properly in first place he may not have got as bad as he has. The district nurse was very concerned about his toe and did tell the GP who said it would just drop off and if it didnt would need to be removed. What kind of health service do we have?!!!

One day a home visit was requested and GP never even turned up.

As old people often are, they remain loyal to the GP and make excuses for them about being so busy etc!.

He seems to be getting good care now and has had 2 units of blood  and O2 and they are trying to correct newly develpoved arrhythmia.

I was rather assuming the treatment for gangrene had changed since my nursing days which was why I put it on here. They are not my immediate family and I feel restricted as to how much I can say or do!

I will keep you posted but it doesnt look good.

Adrienne.

hi,

my suggestion is that your dads foot be washed in a light dilution of hydrogen peroxide (food grade 33%). if you are brave enough get him to drink it but about 3 drops in a large glass of water three times a day. if he handles it well then go to four drops per large glass of water.

i know this sounds absolutly daft but i have drunk hydrogen peroxide and have met a woman who cured her cancer as well as her dogs cancer ingesting hydrogen peroxide.

i am so sad to hear about your nurses, we have the same problem here. no one seems to care its quite amazing. we thought it was only in our country South Africa.

good luck.

debbie

ps if you are too afraid of that then TTree oil mixed with Lavender in water soaking the foot will help to alleviate the smell and the bugs. if you have a BodyTalk person around, then get them to go in and help your dad. BodyTalk has an amazing technique to dispell all sorts of bacteria in the body.

Drink hydrogen peroxide?  Drink hydrogen peroxide!!!!!!!!?

 I really have heard it all now...  Literally advising people to drink bleach.  You couldn't make it up!

You heard it here folks, on wddty.  That's right- drink hydrogen peroxide... a cure for cancer no less.  Oh my goodness graciouis me- some people are ineffably insane. 

 So.. just how much 33% sol. h202 did you drink? What a load of old toss.  Oh sorry, is that me not being open minded...  ok- well, my advice is that you stab yourself repeatedly in the eyes with a pencil.  Its a cure for cancer.  Anyone who doesn't try it is just closed minded. 

Defox you're a genuis!  I wonder just how outrragous advice on this site can get?  More fool anyone who follows it.  Ok, run a hose pipe from the exhast of your car into the drivers window and run the engine.  Sit there for half an hour and breath deeply.  It might sound crazy, but its a sworn cure for asthma.  No one who does this ever has another asthma attack, 100% guaranteed!!

 Oh go on- win a Darwin Award, drink some Toilet Duck- I hear its a perfect cure for being daft.

Dear Harradine

I'm afraid you're so busy being witty and theatrically dramatic that not only have you made grammatical mistakes, but you missed the all-important words "food-grade" hydrogen peroxide. If you had gone on You Tube to find this information before leaping to your keyboard, you would not be coming across as a person who hasn't got a clue what he/she is talking about. I'll leave it up to you to quietly do some research and then, if you've learnt a little humility in the process, maybe we'll see a different letter from you.

Quack. 

Hi Adrienne

Debbie had some really good advice. I suspect she is a BodyTalker, like I am, and coming from New Zealand where we produce Tea-Tree oil and its native equivalent Manuka oil, very useful for fungal problems, I am happy to endorse everything she says.

I have one more suggestion; the Bioptron light and colours. The purple lens is perfect for restoring circulation to the area; I sold a light to a friend's grandfather whose foot was going black and they were talking amputation. Not only did his foot return to pink, but a recurring diabetic ulcer on his leg went away. This is something your f-in-law could use totally safely himself - indeed, the the whole family could benefit for just about any problem. If not, I am sure the hydrogen peroxide wash will do wonders - externally and internally (must be food-grade though!)

Good luck

Heidi 

Hi

On the subject of peroxide, my husband's uncle swore by it - drank it and used it for absolutely everything.  I must admit I thought he was a bit crazy for doing it and I honestly don't know if it had any benefit or not but he lived until he was 94 and was still running for buses at the age of 86, so who am I to judge?

I wish you well in finding a cure.

This just shows how naive people on this site are. 

On the one hand- the world is full of nasty chemcials and you must purge you body of all the aweful toxins that modern life has created (preferably by purchasing some supplement or product to do so). 

On the other hand, putting out the idea that you should actually drink a potent oxidising chemical agent!!  When confusion reigns it, creates paradoxical ideas.  Drink bleach..  heard it all. 

Food grade hydrogen peroxide?  [slaps forward in despair] That doesn't mean you're supposed to drink the stuff you clown!  That's like saying medical grade, or agricultural grade.   Anyway- if homeopathy is true, wouldn't making a more dilute solution actually increase potency (as fact that anyone who's ever doluted anything knows fine well isn't true)

I'm sorry if I lack humility, but you're advising drinking H2O2 and a claim like that could literally be fatal if misunderstood.  Its important anyone reading this who might not have a clue what hydrogen perxoide is maybe realise that its not for drinking.  Ever.  Ever ever ever.

Did someone who drinks hydrogen peroxide just call someone else a quack?  Its all to be found on this website. 

Hye, why not try some dilute ammonia dissolved in drain cleaner. 

Harradine - it's my understanding that no one on this site is obliged to take on board any of the advice or information that's given.  People just tell of their experiences and what has worked for them.  Luckily we live in a society where we can express ourselves and if you choose to do so with anger and disdain then that is your choice.  I am sure there are many people who will agree with you and many that won't.  If the tirade was because of my post please note that I personally am not in the habit of quaffing bleach at bedtime!!

Sue 

Hi Sue,

Of course no one is obliged to flow advice given here or anywhere else.  Of course we are very privileged to live in World where freedom of expression is possible for many.  But this freedom comes with certain responsibilities.  Advertising should not be misleading for example.  Its perfectly fair for ordinary folks to expect not to receive misleading or dangerous advice, for example.

As far as I am concerned, if someone advises someone else to drink hydrogen peroxide on a website claiming to give health advice then that is misleading.  Someone needs to step in and say ‘hang on, that is dangerous, don’t listen to this person' (which is exactly what I did).  Anyone reading this website is then better equipped to decide whether the advice was good, or just plain daft.  

I also pointed out the inconsistencies in the overall content of the website- many references to the general malign influence of environmental chemicals and agents such as EM radiation, yet testimonies to the cancer treating properties of hydrogen peroxide (bleach).  Constant references to the bizarre principles of homeopathy, then sudden acceptance of the laws of physics when it comes to diluting hydrogen peroxide (or using a computer and the internet for that matter).

Its great to be able to account ones own experiences and successes.  But sadly this is no indication whatsoever how similar interventions might affect other people (aren't we always saying people are individuals and what works for one doesn't for the other?)  But when someone recounts an apocryphal success story, on a website claiming to give health advice, then you could see how rather than empowering, the information could become misleading. 

It was not anger in my post btw, it was sheer and utter incredulity.

Hi Harradine

That's fair enough and I take on board your comments.  When I recounted my story I didn't mean to imply that drinking peroxide was okay and I apologise if that's how it came across.  I accept the reprimand and will choose my words more carefully in future.

Sue 

Dear Sue

I commend your total restraint in replying to Harradine, who chooses to remain ignorant despite gentle urgings to research the product him/herself, as well as the English language, before writing to this Forum. It seems he/she thinks that the fact that some people have ingested the food-grade h.p. (and that includes my mother and my brother) and not died, doesn't mean that it will affect all people like that....? Individuals or not, a deadly bleach would have the same effect on the human system one would think. With H's obvious bias against homeopathy, I am beginning to think that H is the offspring of a G.P. or is a science student, learning from school text books which are 20 years out of date.

Perhaps H. would feel more at home on some other Forum; I for one will act like that's already happened from now on.