Autism and the MMR

re: Autism and the MMR

Andy Lewis — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:22:10 GMT

There is an alternative to seeing this as a witchhunt and that is to look at the evidence of whether MMR has anything to do with autism. It is time the personalities involved got forgotten and the evidence became prominent. For too many people, this trial IS the evidence of either a botch job by Wakefield or a conspiracy by vested interests. The real evidence is in the scientific data and we need to concentrate on that.

My guess is though, that too many people have too much emotional investment in believing there must be something in the MMR story. But we need to move on, encourage parents to vaccinate their kids, and hope we don't get a measles epidemic.

re: Autism and the MMR

Kendra — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:57:24 GMT

Hope we don't get a measles epidemic? 'BLINK BLINK' If that is the only concern at this point, we live in a very very sick society.

There is an epidemic, in case you haven't noticed and millions of innocent children don't have measles, a relatively benign childhood illness that affords lifelong immunity, instead they have autism, a lifelong debilitating illness that makes a real independent life for most impossible.

The emotion from most is the shock that they have been ignored and downplayed for two decades now, their children ignored or even denied that they existed. We cannot just move on, as we are soon to experience 1 in every 100 of our children going onto the public dole instead of going on to college or jobs.

Any family dealing with Autism today has to just laugh when people throw out the disease scare tactics. Most would do anything in the entire world to go back in time and trade absolutely any of the vaccine preventable diseases for Autism, anything but Autism. The warped views of those such as Andy Lewis are simply shocking in their ignorance of the reality of Autism.

I have looked at the evidence, the scientific studies, and then I have looked at the ginned up government sponsored epidemiological studies, and the answer is obvious. To move on now is to out the government and the pharmaceutical companies that they have known the truth for a very long time and simply see the numbers of affected children as "collateral damage". Apparently that is an acceptable concept in our society whether in third world countries or our own.

Once again we see the potential of a measles epidemic as 'tragic' but vaccine damaged children are to be swept under the carpet and forgotten. The Polio epidemic of 1 in every 5,000 was tragic and fear inducing, but 1 in every 150 or 1 in every 58 barely rouses media attention. Something is very wrong here, and it would be the worst travesty of justice to not ask "WHY"?????

re: Autism and the MMR

Ziggy — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:47:12 GMT

Gee, Kendra, measles kills hundreds of thousands of kids every year. Since you've reviewed the evidence so closely, please tell us just how MMR vaccine causes autism - we'd really like to know its mechanism.

re: Autism and the MMR

Dinka — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:36:22 GMT

Measels kills hundreds of thousands? Surely not in western world where kids have proper diet and their immune system is much stronger. In countries where kids are starving, live in unclean conditions and are weak and fragile - yes!

While we dont know for sure MMR causes autism we also dont know for sure it doesn't, so, no thank you for my children/

re: Autism and the MMR

Kendra — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:38:00 GMT

If measles kills hundreds of thousands, we would all know someone that died of measles. But reality is, we don't. Nor do I know anyone that knows anyone that died or even had an adverse event from measles.

But we all know kids with Autism now, in fact many. My small town is overflowing with Autism classrooms and teachers that never saw a case of Autism for the first 15 years of their careers now dealing with multiple autistic children in their classrooms every year. They understand the epidemic like no one else besides families.

When I was a small child our parents actually rushed us to friends and neighbors houses to expose us to measles, mumps, chicken pox. No one ever said it was deadly back then, the phrase was "common childhood illnesses". Only after advent of the vaccine did you hear phrases like "deadly", "preventable".

Children in Africa are more susceptible because they live in unsanitary conditions and have compromised nutrition and often unclean water to drink. We would do better to improve their living conditions to cut the death rate than vaccinating weak and vulnerable children.

Once again though I am proven correct in that every disease, epidemic, outcome is a tragedy, except the millions of children now with Autism.

If you want to know the evidence and how MMR can cause Autism, review the recent testimony from the Autism Omnibus hearings.

All the real science point to a link, only government sponsored epidemiology denies one and their methods are so tansparent.

re: Autism and the MMR

Stan — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:45:26 GMT

Ziggy wants to know the potential mechanism. Kendra says there is something to the subject in the Autism Omnibus hearings. I haven't seen that source yet, but what my research on the matter tells me is a two-pronged attack on the brain. First, the MMR is cultivated on chick embryo cells, which can pass on the contamination of Myelin Basic Protein (MBP), which is then recognised in the body's inflammatory response to the vaccine, which results in an autoimmune response to the body's own myelin (the insulation material for the cranial nerve systems). (Incidentally, this can also be the "mechanism" for the side effect of MS from some vaccines. We DO know, and admit, that vaccines can cause MS, don't we? And other autoimmune conditions, like arthritis/arthralgia, asthma, type 1diabetes? This wondrous medical modality defended by the medical profession with such passion??) Second, the measles component of the vaccine has been associated, not just by Wakefield, but by others (Singh, eg), as being in the damaged gut of autistic children, thus associated with leaky gut syndrome. This can allow toxins into the bloodstream, thus capable of attacking the damaged brain. Thre is an allergic reaction factor here as well, but that doesn't have to be gone into to make the case for a biologically plausible "mechanism" at work here. Simply put: vaccines are not as safe as they are made out to be. And I'm with Kendra in pointing out the preference between a case of the measles (which can be treated with vitamin A/cod liver oil, which some doctors knew about back in the bad old days before the vaccine came into the picture - and 'coincidentally' when the description of measles in the med manuals changed from being a 'mild to moderate childhood disease' to being a severe affliction, terribly dangerous, line-up-your-children-for-the-jab-quick condition) and the terrible sentence of ASD, to the childen involved and to their sorely put-upon parents. Who deserve an Informed Opinion in the matter, not an arrogant diktat from on high from the experts who are stonewalling this matter to death.

re: Autism and the MMR

Mike — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:28:03 GMT

As a lifelong behavioral disability, autism has a far greater cost than is currently acknowledged. Autistic people are often hopefully seen as able bodied, and able to integrate with society "if they would just make up their minds and do it." Simple fact is, most are not able to do this, no amount of desire on their part can make them able to learn the essential social skills that will enable them to be employed, or even out of jail.

Weigh the cost of 1/100 people needing lifelong care vs the cost of childhood disease prior to vaccination. Death and disfigurement are horrible things to confront, and yet we send our soldiers into war to face just these things to preserve "our way of life." Parents of autistic children's way of life is being destroyed by the epidemic.

So, I wish, just for a moment, that the pro-vaccination establishment would stop rejecting out of hand any arguments against vaccination, do some real science that might jeopardize a few commercially successful products, and get some real answers on this topic.

The cause of the recent autism epidemic is surely multi-factorial, including genetics, practice of medicine, environment and foods. If we can clearly identify and then eliminate one or more of the contributing factors, we could reduce the presently rising tide of autism.

You can be "a little autistic", and sometimes reducing the severity of the condition is the difference between a dysfunctional person on the dole and a highly productive member of society. If any of these factors, including MMR, is worsening some persons' autism, that needs to be known. When a full cost/benefit analysis is done, it might be time to throw "herd immunity" out with thalidomide, sulfa drugs and leeches.

re: Autism and the MMR

Debbie — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:49:44 GMT

I would just like to say that i have a daughter who is autistic. I would rather she caught measles,mumps,chicken pox etc than was autistic. She will never 'recover' from her autism.

I have grave doubts about vaccines after reading numerous reports both pro and anti vaccination.

Neither of my two children will ever be vaccinated against anything ever again.Although for my daughter that's possibly too little too late.

It just breaks my heart to think that i may, albeit unwittingly, have 'caused' her autism.

re: Autism and the MMR

Stan — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:30:40 GMT

Debbie,

Never say Never. There ARE treatments for autism. Different children will need different aproaches. A good source of info (in the UK) is www.autismtrust.org.uk. Blessings on your search. In the meantime, just be the loving mother that you are to her. And don't blame yourself. It's not your fault that you weren't given the right to Informed Consent that you were entitled to. A truly informed consent; not one stacked against parents, by true believers for whom the end justifies the means. A philosopy that kept the medical profession from looking at the REAL risks-vs-benefits ratio of various vaccines, and unleashed a pandemic of autoimmune diseases on the world, amongst other side effects to this good intention gone horribly wrong.

re: Autism and the MMR

Charles Linskaill — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:54:52 GMT

I don't believe for one minute, that the MMR jab has nothing to do with Autism, they can do all the "brainwashing" they want, but it don't wash with me!

Remember the health minister that came on news at ten with his children scoffing hamburgers and said Quote;

"Look everyone my children eat beef!! no way can you contract CJD Mad cow disease" only to be proven Soooo Wrong! a few years later!

How can anyone trust what they say?

1 in 58 tells it all unless you are Th*ck!

re: Autism and the MMR

Ziggy — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 03:02:29 GMT

Here are the facts:

-The incidence of autisms in vaccinated and unvaccinated kids are the same.

-The incidence of autisms in kids immunized with or without thimerosal-containing vaccines is the same.

-The incidence of autisms in kids who've been immunized with MMR is the same as those who've not -been immunized with MMR.

-Autisms strike four boys for every one girl (implies genetics)

-Several candidate genetic loci have been identified that are associated with autisms (but no causality at this point).

-Autisms occur in children of parents who are highly technical in their professions.

-And finally, here's what measles can do (besides kill you): The most serious complications include blindness, encephalitis, severe diarrhea, ear infections, and severe respiratory infections, such as pneumonia. Given the highly infectious nature of measles, if the vaccine were abandoned dozens to hundreds of kids would die each year, and hundreds more would be permanently disabled. There is no evidence that MMR causes autisms, but plenty of evidence that it saves lives and prevents disabilities.

I'm sorry for those who have autistic children, but if you want to find out why, don't look to vaccines; you're just wasting your time.

re: Autism and the MMR

Martin — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:43:20 GMT

Unfortunately there is a difference between statistics and facts, which Ziggy doesn't seem to understand. Never heard the one about "lies, damn lies, and statistics", Ziggy? I am far more inclined to believe the anecdotal evidence of intelligent people who believe their children have been harmed by MMR jabs, and speak from personal experience. Of course there is a very simple way forward in this matter and that is for governments to stop interfering and coercing and to desist from forcing medical choices on parents. After all, a certain prime minister, happy to coerce millions in this way, suddenly became strangely cagey about the choices he himself made for his own child. What’s sauce for the goose isn’t always sauce for the gander when it comes to the actions of politicians.

Vaccination is beloved of political control freaks, entailing as it does massive and wicked intrusion into the lives of individuals and great loss of personal freedom. Is it any wonder that governments just love it, especially when it also entails cosying up to big business? But has mass vaccination ever been scientifically and indisputably proven to be safe, or even medically effective? Where are the conclusive double-blind trials to prove it? There aren’t any, because they couldn’t be conducted on whole populations.

Vaccination has actually become another of the damaging new religions proliferating these days which, like global-warming hysteria, are beyond rational debate.

The fact is that the government has painted itself into a corner on this one and will ruthlessly steamroller any opposition rather than admit that it has been wrong all along. Ministers will continue to relentlessly dig their heels in, and if it means carelessly destroying the careers of anyone who gets in their way, then so be it.

I am afraid that it seems abundantly clear from his letter that Ziggy is not a believer in personal freedom and individual choice. Perhaps he really believes that the “experts” know best.

re: Autism and the MMR

larissa — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:11:48 GMT

Debbie

Look at www.tretaingautism.com

a voluntary run charity by parents of children with autism, autism is treatable.

re: Autism and the MMR

larissa — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:17:32 GMT

Ziggy, look at vaccine ingredients, it is not hard to see why our children are so medically ill, children have 25 vaccinations by the age of 4 months, why - greed. The companies that make the vaccinations make billions of pounds, mercury is still put put flu vaccines !! WHY. Mercury themometres are now banned so why are we giving injections with this metal in? It is not easy for a parent to consider that they may have been part of the causation of their child's autsim, in fact the very opposite. Parents know their children better than anyone else, but their views are not believed. Autism & bowel disease is the biggest cover this country has ever seen.

re: Autism and the MMR

Stan — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:15:31 GMT

"Autisms strike four boys for every one girl (implies genetics)."

No it doesn't. It implies a hormonal factor. Lo and behold: It reflects a response to mercury exposure. Estrogen is more protective to mercury exposure; testosterone enhances its toxicity. Check the studies of Dr Boyd Haley on these mercury matters, which include how glutathione binds mercury and removes it, and the glutamate in vaccines lowers glutathione levels (besides increasing inflammation in the brain). Also, how the aluminium in vaccines enhances the toxicity of thimerosal.

"Autisms occur in children of parents who are highly technical in their professions."

This idea comes from a misreading of the situation at the first look into autism, back in the 40s and 50s. It was occurring first in more educated cohorts - especially parents with some connection to the medical profession. Long story short: they were the first to pick up on the new medical modality of vaccines, and had the money for them. Once mass vaccination programmes kicked in, and autism started appearing more widely in the public, this early clue to its causation disappeared. For info on this factor, read the book by Harris L Coulter, PhD entitled 'Vaccination, Social Violence and Criminality: The Medical Assault on the American Mind'. It's an eyeopener in many ways.

re: Autism and the MMR

Ziggy — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:19:26 GMT

To Martin:

Statistics are used to draw factual conclusions. This is taught in every introductory statistcs class. Have you had one? And yes, I have heard the tired phrase about statisitcs. That's why we have peer-review; others to check to make sure they are done correctly. It's very rare for someone to published data with incorrect statistical analysis. Regardless of your belief to the contrary, statistical analysis is essential for good data reduction. How do think Japan and Korea became such economic powerhouses after devastating wars?

Vaccinations are a public health issue. All one has to do is look to smallpox to understand that. I don't want your disease-ladened children next to mine in school, even though mine are vaccinated (i.e., vaccine breakthrough). There is no such thing as a completely free society, otherwise things like murder would be ok - right?

You can believe what you want, but there are no *scientific papers* (i.e., evidence-based) that show MMR causes autism. None. How do you reconcile the numers? The incidence of autisms in MMR-vaccinated and unvaccinated children are *statisitcally identical*. That says it's not the vaccine. There's no other way to interpret these data.

re: Autism and the MMR

Ziggy — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:30:53 GMT

To Stan:

Hormones are directly (protein hormones) or indirectly (steroid hormones) generated because of genes. About Haley, he has demonstrated a lack of understanding on the biological processes of thimerosal metabolism (he's a chemist, not a biologist). He is incorrect in his assessments.

Can you provide a reference to the peer-reviewed scientifc literature that substantiates your assertion that "aluminium in vaccines enhances the toxicity of thimerosal"?

Can you address the incidence issues? How do you reconcile those? Also, since thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in 2001 the incidence of autism in the US has continued to increase. How can thimerosal be blamed if the total thimerosal exposure has been reduced by an order of magnitude or more (i.e., influenza vaccine)? Surely, if thimerosal were the culprit we'd see a decline in incidence by now, but that is not the case, is it?

re: Autism and the MMR

Ziggy — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:08:38 GMT

To larissa:

Larissa, you should consider taking a basic chemistry course sometime. If anyone tells you that vaccines contain elemental (i.e., metal) mercury, they are lying to you. The mercury used in vaccines is in the form of theimerosol, and its functional group is ethylmercury. Its toxicitiy is substantially less than metal mercury, or even the much more toxic mercury chloride. For an analogy, sodium is one of the most toxic metals known. If you ingest just a few dozen milligrams it will ignite inside your body causing substantial burns and eventually kill you. Chloride is a toxic gas - one used by the *** to murder people in concentration camps. It causes the lining of your lungs to slough off in seconds and results in body fluids filling the lungs. Death is because you cannot breath. Yet these two elements are essential for all life - they form sodium chloride, otherwise known as table salt.

re: Autism and the MMR

Martin — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:13:03 GMT

Perhaps in reply to Ziggy I had better clarify the point I was making with regard to medical statistics which I fear he has failed to grasp. Maybe I didn't spell it out sufficiently clearly.

The point is this: it is always possible to dredge up statistics to support both sides of any scientific argument, and apparently to prove any case. That is why some wag coined the phrase: "lies, damned lies, and statistics". He wasn't joking, entirely, nor was he stupid, far from it. I applaud the achievements of science, but unfortunately there is much dubious science around. In my experience scientists tend to disagree with each other, often vehemently, over every issue you can think of, so they cannot all be right. It can take years of argument and experiment before a consensus is reached on even the most fundamental questions. Even then there will be dissenters who are rejected and ridiculed by the mainstream, and sometimes even then they are proved right. Continental Drift is a good example of this, an idea which was laughed at and is now the very foundation of modern geology. And that is without even considering the political and budgetary pressures biasing scientists to follow the party line.

If statistics, or at least the statistics which suit your particular case, can't be rigged then why have countless drugs come through clinical trials with flying colours only to harm thousands, and sometimes, millions of patients out in the real world? So don’t try to blind people with statistics.

In the real world you have (if you have any sense) to choose between conflicting ideas, and decide who you believe and whose advice to accept regarding matters which you are not expert in yourself.

An example from my own experience was when my wife contracted arthritis more than thirty years ago. If we had taken the doctor’s advice we would have returned to the surgery when the pain was absolutely unbearable, got painkillers and started down the long road of medically accepted arthritis treatment. There would have followed steroids, gold injections and wonder drugs. When these didn’t work there would have been artificial joints for knees, fingers, hips and so on. That is if the debilitating effects of all the drugs hadn’t resulted in further even more unpleasant complications as well. Fortunately we didn’t do what I can only assume Ziggy would have done, i.e. take “expert” advice, but rather the very opposite. We listened to those allergy specialists who are routinely derided by “experts”, and in the press, and followed their advice. In particular we followed the system detailed by the superb clinical ecologist Dr Marshall Mandell. Consequently my wife hasn’t been turned into an invalid but leads a normal active life walking, cycling, gardening, cooking, etc. Nor did the regime cost untold thousands to pay for drugs, hospital treatment and operations. Wait now, maybe that’s why it wasn’t recommended! It didn’t double as a job creation scheme!

So, that’s why in the real world I will continue to listen to and believe the people at the coal face, the parents whose children’s lives have been ruined by vaccinations, rather than to the lies spread by governments and their faithful camp followers and toadies.

re: Autism and the MMR

Stan — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:12:08 GMT

To Ziggy:

M point about hormones was how they are a factor in why there are more boys than girls coming down with ASD: it's how estrogen/testosterone respond to exposure to mercury.

Aluminium enhances the toxicity of thimerosal: this particular reference was from Dr Haley, but since you have indicated what you think of him, I won't bother trying to convince you of this one. Although I have to wonder why you think inoculating children with either thimerosal or aluminium (or formaldehyde, for that matter) is a safe enough idea. Especially with the cumulative effect involved (& in relation to the increased no. of vaccines in the schedule - many times what it used to be).

Thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001: i can't believe you really believe this issue is that cut and dried. That whole thing was voluntary; and there are reports of thimerosal-containing vaccines still in use in 2004 eg, because they were not required to clear their shelves of those vaccines.

As for "incidence" issues between vaccinated and unvaccinated: Sorry, after reading all that I have about how studies come up with different results depending on who runs and/or reports the studies, I don't trust the establishment's figures like you do. Simply put: the medical-pharmaceutical-government complex can't be trusted; it has a vested interest in the outcomes it wants. I would be happy to acknowledge the safety of vaccines if I thought they were; I have no vested interest in that outcome. But they aren't. I trust parents who report over and over and over again how a vaccine caused highpitched screaming, inconsolable crying, fevers, going limp, and behavioural change etc etc in their children. And when they report that their health practitioner lied to their faces - "The vaccine didn't cause that" - and consequently didn't report the adverse event (and thus epidemiological studies not being worth the paper they're written on), I will trust the eye-witness parents over their vested-interest health practitioners every time.

re: Autism and the MMR

larissa — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:14:10 GMT

Ziggy

How interesting that you say the mercury used in vaccines is in the form of theimerosol is safe, how ridiculous, babies only weigh 8 - 16 lbs when they have vaccinations, how is this safe ? why do they need them so young - they don't. What happens if the baby has a low immune system - I will tell you , they become medically sick. All symptoms of heavy metal poisoning are the same as autism.

re: Autism and the MMR

larissa — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:21:04 GMT

Ziggy

Table salt in excess is dangerous, why are you stating the obvious? we are talking autism not salt.

re: Autism and the MMR

Charles Linskaill — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:43:19 GMT

Give back the parents "freedom off choice" the MMR "jab" was brought out to save money, nothing more nothing less!

A parent knows their child's normal behavior, and when a patent says she/he was OK until getting the MMR "jab" you should believe them!

Just because the researchers are not clever enough to see the "TRUTH" on the MMR jab just yet, why do we not LISTEN to the parents?

Its the exact same as "the mad cow" CJD fiasco, "don't know so deny it"!!

re: Autism and the MMR

Eugenie C Smith — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:35:11 GMT

I have followed the work of Dr Andrew Wakefield since the late eighties and admire his courage and tenacity. It will be a very sad thing for the children of the world if the Governments count the money they receive from drug companies against the health of our children. Let Dr Wakefield continue his worthwhile studies and support him so that he can prove himself.

ROBERT F KENNEDY JR. has published a very worthwhile article entitled "Deadly Immunity" - eight pages long revealing that mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism in thousands of children and the government rushed to conceal the data and to prevent parents from suing drug companies for their role in the epidemic. http://www.health-reports.com/RobertKennedyJrarticle.html

http://www.health-reports.com/RobertKennedyJrarticle.html

re: Autism and the MMR

Ellay — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:31:52 GMT

Joining in with first hand experience, my robust healthy daughter received the MMR vaccination in 1993, at 20 months (due to my fear) and subsequently became very ill. Her hair fell out and she suffered acute abdominal pain, distention, constipation, thrush, delayed teething, recurring fevers (to name a few). I was told to give her panadol by the GP, there was a virus going around and hair loss in infants was normal.

Eventually, as a result of her hair refusing to grow, and her inability to sleep through the night without screaming every two hours, I took her to see an Integrative Doctor who performed an hair analysis - diagnosis: heavy metal poisoning - the main ones; lead, aluminium, cadmium and arsenic.

Mainstream medicine refuted the hair analysis and said they were unreliable and misleading and that her blood lead levels were within the acceptable range. My research indicated that medically approved 'acceptable' lead level ranges were outside the appropriate levels for full brain development.

I utilised every alternate therapy I could access, followed a strict dietary regime and continue to do so. I have also stayed away from mainstream medicine wherever possible. I know they are doing the best they can with the information available. Financial rewards for reaching a quota is definitely enticing, especially when 'scientific evidence' is so prevalent in support of these programs.

At the time, I had not connected the immunisation with her illness, so I was not on a 'witch-hunt'. Now, 13 years later, I notice that the symptoms others are describing seem uncannily like my daughter's and I am very thankful that she is doing as well in her life as she is, unlike others who seem not to be so lucky.

I also had my bright, happy & very healthy son immunised at the same time, he was 5, quick & smart with a vocabulary beyond many adults. He's finished school now and has trouble reading, writing and learning. While these areas are within the ranges of acceptable, I wonder if perhaps his potential was limited on that day the vaccination was delivered.

Today I support anyone who is rattling the chains in the dusty halls of pharmaceutical medicine, as I know they are fighting a big rich machine and could well end up without a medical license or in jail, as so many have before them. The current paradigm is long overdue for an accountability wake up call.

re: Autism and the MMR

D.Roberts — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:31:03 GMT

J.Edgar Hoover once stated that the conspiracy was so great ordinary folk could neither comprehend or believe. He could have been talking about MMR, Bird Flu or Global Warming, there is something quite sinister happening regarding all these matters.

Last evening my wife and I watched a video on Google, 90 minutes of mind blowing facts about vaccinations which had us both feeling that we were living in a Sci-Fi world controlled by Aliens. Go to Google Video and search for MMR, invest 90 minutes of your time, you will be amazed.

As for Ziggy, I will need substantial evidence that He/She is not a fifth columnist, a member of the Big Pharma lobby paid to infiltrate such postings as this one. Too much biased junk information and crackpot statistics. Having now made that accusation be assured the name will change, the junk comments will of course remain the same.

re: Autism and the MMR

D.Roberts — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:30:27 GMT

The Google video which I mentioned is as follows, "Ugly Truth About Vaccinations".

It is a lecture given by Dr David Ayoub, stick with it to the end, well worth the ninety minutes. You will not be having another flu jab.

re: Autism and the MMR

salutaris — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:48:55 GMT

I was educated aty the University of London ( B. Pharm 1951 Ph. D Medicine in 1956.) One important aspect of this whole problem is the fact the MMR vaccine is asking a patient's immune system to deal with 3 simultaneous threats. It is possible that the desired and intended patient immunity might be induced by injecting MMR as 3 separate singular insults. Autism might be an expression of insult overload in some patients.

re: Autism and the MMR

Yvonne — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:52:35 GMT

To Martin re statistics

Apart from the headline grabbing autism cases, there are many others of us who have children who have suffered minor negative reactions to the MMR jab which I suspect are completely unreported. My little girl had the jab at around 16 months old. 10 days later she came down with a classic measles-like rash and a temperature which went up and down for 3-4 days. The doctor refused to believe that the jab had anything to do with it and diagnosed a "viral rash". When the same thing happened at around 3 months after the jab I didn't bother taking her into the surgery and treat the symptoms at home.

How many more parents are there out there who have had similar experiences?

To show the flip side of the coin, a friend whose two girls came down with measles at 5-6 years old had to fight with her GP who refused to believe that they had had their vaccines - after all you can't get measles after you have been vaccinated can you?

re: Autism and the MMR

Melissa — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:59:53 GMT

My son, Tommy, is almost five years old. He began showing autistic symptoms by the age of 15-16 months. I knew it immediately, as I know other people with autistic kids and was familiar with the diagnosis. My son NEVER had the MMR. By the time he was 18 mos.old and was not pointing, waving and had lost the few words he was using I refused any further vaccinations. In my humble opinion, MMR alone does not cause Autism. I believe my son was damaged by DTP shots and the many many other shots (some of which likely contained mercury) recommended for babies today. He then received the chicken pox vaccine. Another VIRUS which his body was unable to handle due to the fact that it was too busy trying to clear the mercury. MMR is the final straw for many... the final insult in a body already damaged by vaccination overload and mercury poisoning.

re: Autism and the MMR

Eugenie C Smith — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:25:07 GMT

A report released October 1st 2007 by US Autism & Asperger Association Inc. USA by David Geier, Institute of Chronic Illnesses, USA and Mark R Geier, MD, PhD, Genetic Centers of America USA confirms that many children with autistic spectrum disorders (ASDs) suffer from MERCURY POISONING. The new study has been published in the most recent issue of the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A (volume 70, issue 20, pgs 1723-1730). This study utilized urinary porphyrin profile analysis (UPPA) to assess body-burden and physiological effects of mercury in children diagnosed with ASDs. For the past several years there has been a raging controversy as to whether or not mercury in medicines, especially in vaccines has caused a dramatic rise in the rate of children diagnosed with an ASD. Many experts have insisted ASDs are caused by SOME YET TO BE IDENTIFIED GENETIC CAUSE ? A paper recently published in Nature Genetics described the results of multi-million-dollar genetics study (which studied a thousand plus families with at least two children diagnosed with an ASD using in-depth genetic screening). Tellingly the authors reported "NONE OF OUR LINKAGE RESULTS CAN BE INTERPRETED AS STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT. (The Autism Genome Project Consortium 2007). With the current study's results, public health officials should now publicly admit what they have been saying in their private transcripts and memos: MERCURY FROM THIMEROSAL CONTAINING VACCINES AND OTHER MEDICINES HAS BEEN A MAJOR CAUSE OF ASD CASES WHICH MAY EXCEED A RATE OF ONE IN ONE HUNDRED CHILDREN!! The researchers studied urinary porphyrin patterns using results reported both by the US Laboratory Corporation of America (LabCorp) and the French Laboratoire Phillippe Auguste.

re: Autism and the MMR

Udenia Icenhour — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:39:01 GMT

Hello, the comments that are here and very one sided for each individual. I am a mother of a 5 year old autistic boy, that I find I am FIGHTING DAILY just for him to receive services and it kills me to think that one vaccination could have done it. But I am here for another reason. I am currently writing a paper on statistics and autism and I need your assistance. Where can I find more information on the clinical trials and statistics specifically. I know the websites that provide support but I am looking for hard evidence to support my paper. thanks, so much, Udenia

re: Autism and the MMR

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:53:08 GMT

Udenia,

The best starting point is pubmed, the medical science literature database.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

This site is a database of peer reviewed literature and current medical opinion. If you are new to this resource, it is incredibly widely used. It allows you to refine you search to clinical trials.

I am sorry to hear about the troible you are experiencing getting help for your son. Rest assured that the evidence does not support any link between MMR jab and autism and in fact demonstrated that there is no link. Good luck with your paper.

re: Autism and the MMR

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:03:07 GMT

Here is a recent study from Japan piblished in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders. Publically available for scrutiny. If anyone beleives this is 'BLINDING THEM WITH STATISTICS", the scrutinise those statistics and we can discuss their faults and merits rationally.

J Autism Dev Disord. 2007 Feb;37(2):210-7.

MMR-vaccine and regression in autism spectrum disorders: negative results

presented from Japan.

Uchiyama T, Kurosawa M, Inaba Y.

Department of Human Welfare, Otsuma Women's University, 2-7-1, Karakida,

Tama-city, Tokyo, 206-8540, Japan. tokiouch@otsuma.ac.jp

It has been suggested that the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine (MMR) is a

cause of regressive autism. As MMR was used in Japan only between 1989 and 1993,

this time period affords a natural experiment to examine this hypothesis. Data on

904 patients with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) were analyzed. During the

period of MMR usage no significant difference was found in the incidence of

regression between MMR-vaccinated children and non-vaccinated children. Among the

proportion and incidence of regression across the three MMR-program-related

periods (before, during and after MMR usage), no significant difference was found

between those who had received MMR and those who had not. Moreover, the incidence

of regression did not change significantly across the three periods.

re: Autism and the MMR

whale — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:59:39 GMT

It is pretty obvious it is a witch hunt http://www.whale.to/v/gmc_wakefield.html

and pretty obvious MMR and other vaccines are trhe main cause of autism http://www.whale.to/vaccines/vax_autism_q.html

unless you have some interest in vaccination, emotional, professional eg

the last MMR went down, if this one does also with autism tagged to it, with 500,000 people in the UK with ASD you can imagine can't you?

then the vaccine programme could follow as it is only held up with propaganda

and it is easy to tell MMR is killing more kids than measles would be doing http://www.whale.to/vaccines/measles.html

re: Autism and the MMR

trudi willis — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:46:46 GMT

HI just stumbled across this page whilst looking up reactions associated with mmr. My daughter had her vaccination 2 weeks ago, a hard decision to make for us. Our son is 4 and was diagnosed with autism last year. Yes you are right mums and dads do feel guilty about the fact they took their children for the jabs I know I do. But looking back now my son had autistic tendancies well before the mmr jab.

After some serious research I chose to have my daughter immunised. why well autism rates were higher in most areas where the mmr was not given. and measals rates lowered. so I would rather have a autistic son and daughter than severly disabled children. I dont see my son as socially disabled autism is a challenge, a challenge that I feel proud to be fighting with him.

re: Autism and the MMR

satchmo — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:11:08 GMT

Since we cannot trust the medical community, we should stop taking our children to the doctors when they get sick.

Antibiotics can cause severe and sometimes permanent disabilities. Death from anaphylaxis is a known side effect with virtually any medication, including ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) and aspirin.

Therefore, none of us should ever take any medication. You will never know when the next time you take an Advil for your headache will be your last.